I don't think you can get much of an accurate answer over whether women prefer buff men from this. He's doing a pose which makes him look tiny in comparison, skinny with oversized arms. The lighting doesn't help either, it makes him look balder and his face look older. Also he's got some decent muscle in the before picture, just a higher bodyfat %. I'd be interested to know what the results would look like if it was more of a recomp where he was closer to his starting weight but with more mass, rather than a straight cut.
The article does reference research demonstrating that men often are completely incorrect about the preferences of women. While "the lighting and pose are what does it" is nowhere near the "women are lying" stuff that the article is talking about, I really think that the starting point should be taking opinions like these at face value.
Notably, men significantly preferred the photo on the right. If the issue were lighting and pose making him look smaller on the right, why don't we see this same effect in the responses from men?
The reverse effect is also interesting: I think what women think men go for in a woman is very different from whan men actually prefer. Reminds me of Seinfeld's The Fix-Up episode: "Who cares about eyebrows"!
This is huge. I don't know any single men who loves these artificial huge eyelashes or large multicolored fingernails, but for some reasons tons of women classify them as "beauty" factors. I'd say men just tolerate them as part of the package so to say, and women are manipulated into just following the crowd.
Then there is this completely separate category of lip jobs and boob jobs where some women are definitely convinced doing these will make them more sexually attractive to men, and it definitely work for some of them, but has the opposite effect on others.
> A bunch of guys got furious that women did not appreciate Olly’s gains
Those are not real "gains", he looks like a chicken with muscles in the second photo, maybe a chicken that can lift some weights but still a chicken. I'm a male, if it counts.
It was my long term observation - the buffed guys in movies and video games are for other men to look at and admire. They are in games and movies targeted at men. Movies targeted at women have different male physicality.
Gym is something men do to compete with other men and look good to other men. It has zero to do with what women like.
But when I wrote that in comments, invariably, men felt offended and angry.
> Gym is something men do to compete with other men
That's a massive overgeneralisation. Gym is not just for looks. Based on local gym, it's not even the main purpose. There's lots of people using it for maintaining basic fitness.
I'm writing it here, because when I was growing up, many people genuinely had the idea that you start going to the gym to become a bodybuilder. In case anyone needs to hear it - no - feel free to go to just be more healthy.
People to want to maintain basic fitness wont prioritize muscle growth over everything. Even more importantly, they will do sports that are not "the gym" - cycling, soccer, running, basketball, climbing and what not.
Gym culture is heavily biased toward something else. And when you look at advice about training guys are getting and seeking, it is all about muscles growth. Nothing about being faster, healthier, have balanced performance ... no other goal is as discussed as muscle growth.
I was looking into advice on lifting weights not that long ago and this was very noticeable to me.
The stuff you find online didn't even allow for the possibility that there were other goals even as they discussed the risk of life changing injuries from certain practices.
It was just "will this grow muscle size more and faster" when I was looking for some science backed answers on what was the minimum time/money/risk way to be healthy and active in the long term.
One person who stuck out for going against this was an expert in back jnjuries asking older weightlifters "Do you want to keep setting personal bests or do you want to be able to play on the floor with your grandchildren as you can't do both"
Maybe that's regional or specific to some chains, but not universal. About half the people in my gym come in only for cardio machines. The PTs start with - "so what do you want to achieve?". As for sports you listed, soccer and basketball rely on available groups - it's not for everyone; climbing depends on available walls which only exist in larger towns and cities (1.5h to my closest one); running/cycling depends on various conditions, so many people do that... at the gym.
If you’re commenting on hacker news, you definitely need to go to the gym on a regular basis. Has nothing to do with looks and everything to do with your physical and mental health.
> Gym is something men do to compete with other men and look good to other men. It has zero to do with what women like.
This is nonsense. Most men do gym because they want to look a certain way (leaner and in some cases more muscular). It's largely unrelated to what women want.
> But when I wrote that in comments, invariably, men felt offended and angry.
Rightfully so. It's a gross generalization (and oversimplification).
I don't think you can get much of an accurate answer over whether women prefer buff men from this. He's doing a pose which makes him look tiny in comparison, skinny with oversized arms. The lighting doesn't help either, it makes him look balder and his face look older. Also he's got some decent muscle in the before picture, just a higher bodyfat %. I'd be interested to know what the results would look like if it was more of a recomp where he was closer to his starting weight but with more mass, rather than a straight cut.
The article does reference research demonstrating that men often are completely incorrect about the preferences of women. While "the lighting and pose are what does it" is nowhere near the "women are lying" stuff that the article is talking about, I really think that the starting point should be taking opinions like these at face value.
Notably, men significantly preferred the photo on the right. If the issue were lighting and pose making him look smaller on the right, why don't we see this same effect in the responses from men?
The reverse effect is also interesting: I think what women think men go for in a woman is very different from whan men actually prefer. Reminds me of Seinfeld's The Fix-Up episode: "Who cares about eyebrows"!
This is huge. I don't know any single men who loves these artificial huge eyelashes or large multicolored fingernails, but for some reasons tons of women classify them as "beauty" factors. I'd say men just tolerate them as part of the package so to say, and women are manipulated into just following the crowd.
Then there is this completely separate category of lip jobs and boob jobs where some women are definitely convinced doing these will make them more sexually attractive to men, and it definitely work for some of them, but has the opposite effect on others.
I generally agree with the points being made so this is just for added context:
His wife is a fitness influencer and bodybuilder who has been leading his training.
Not sure how that impacts things overall but think it interesting and relevant.
Relevant to what? The subject is "What women prefer, and what men believe that women prefer?"
In the After photo he looks gay. Pointless "study".
Why this is even posted here
> A bunch of guys got furious that women did not appreciate Olly’s gains
Those are not real "gains", he looks like a chicken with muscles in the second photo, maybe a chicken that can lift some weights but still a chicken. I'm a male, if it counts.
It was my long term observation - the buffed guys in movies and video games are for other men to look at and admire. They are in games and movies targeted at men. Movies targeted at women have different male physicality.
Gym is something men do to compete with other men and look good to other men. It has zero to do with what women like.
But when I wrote that in comments, invariably, men felt offended and angry.
> Gym is something men do to compete with other men
That's a massive overgeneralisation. Gym is not just for looks. Based on local gym, it's not even the main purpose. There's lots of people using it for maintaining basic fitness.
I'm writing it here, because when I was growing up, many people genuinely had the idea that you start going to the gym to become a bodybuilder. In case anyone needs to hear it - no - feel free to go to just be more healthy.
People to want to maintain basic fitness wont prioritize muscle growth over everything. Even more importantly, they will do sports that are not "the gym" - cycling, soccer, running, basketball, climbing and what not.
Gym culture is heavily biased toward something else. And when you look at advice about training guys are getting and seeking, it is all about muscles growth. Nothing about being faster, healthier, have balanced performance ... no other goal is as discussed as muscle growth.
I was looking into advice on lifting weights not that long ago and this was very noticeable to me.
The stuff you find online didn't even allow for the possibility that there were other goals even as they discussed the risk of life changing injuries from certain practices.
It was just "will this grow muscle size more and faster" when I was looking for some science backed answers on what was the minimum time/money/risk way to be healthy and active in the long term.
One person who stuck out for going against this was an expert in back jnjuries asking older weightlifters "Do you want to keep setting personal bests or do you want to be able to play on the floor with your grandchildren as you can't do both"
Maybe that's regional or specific to some chains, but not universal. About half the people in my gym come in only for cardio machines. The PTs start with - "so what do you want to achieve?". As for sports you listed, soccer and basketball rely on available groups - it's not for everyone; climbing depends on available walls which only exist in larger towns and cities (1.5h to my closest one); running/cycling depends on various conditions, so many people do that... at the gym.
If you’re commenting on hacker news, you definitely need to go to the gym on a regular basis. Has nothing to do with looks and everything to do with your physical and mental health.
> Gym is something men do to compete with other men and look good to other men. It has zero to do with what women like.
This is nonsense. Most men do gym because they want to look a certain way (leaner and in some cases more muscular). It's largely unrelated to what women want.
> But when I wrote that in comments, invariably, men felt offended and angry.
Rightfully so. It's a gross generalization (and oversimplification).